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[arethinn]

from a comment I made in a locked post:

I've made the mistake of trying to achieve some kind of nebulous spiritual thing by Buying Shit before. I spend a lot of my life turning my energy (time) into money, so hey, maybe I can work the conversion back the other way: the more of _____ I buy, the more thought I am directing towards it.

Unfortunately that doesn't exactly work, especially when we are talking about initially opening up a current, whether that's to a line of practice or to a specific being. You have to spend the time directly first. You cannot lead off with material gifts. Think how you would feel if someone just randomly approached you and gave you something, even if they had done research to find out what you liked. You'd probably wonder what their motive was, wouldn't you? It would seem a little creepy. You would not be all that inclined to just say hey, sure, we're buds now. After you've spent some time and exchanged some thought and energy, then you can start buying gifts if you like, and it will seem much more sincere.

I've tripped over this multiple times in the past *mumble* years and I think it's only sunk in very recently. I've tried buying "stuff" for various spirit contacts, sometimes as gifts, sometimes as anchors. Doesn't work. Has that same hollow feeling. Gotta sit and have a bunch of rap sessions first, pal. Or in the case of a body of practice, work with its techniques.

It's a funny cycle -- you should start out without too much stuff. Then you can start accumulating stuff as useful tools. Then eventually you start dropping a lot of the stuff again, maybe even all of it, because hey, you and your spirit buddy (/god/tradition/whatever) have spent all this time together now, you no longer need the accoutrements, the venue; you have each other.

Comments

[yuri93.livejournal.com]

Replying here rather than there. Pretty much agreeing with all your points, though elaborating on a few...

I've made the mistake of trying to achieve some kind of nebulous spiritual thing by Buying Shit before.

I think we all have. I think, particularly too, that it's a newbie thing, especially within paganism and magick (in all their flavors). Newbies don't have tools. Newbies think they need tools. Newbies go out and get tools. Newbies think tools are groovy and then accumulate more tools, fancier tools, more stuff, and at least at this phase their path is primarily stuff-oriented. More emphasis on the fancy athame than the actual magick. More emphasis on the bauble you're giving the spirit than the spirit itself.

I never sank too deeply into this, thankfully, due to just not having a lot of money to throw around. (Student, and all that.) I used to be afflicted by a nasty case of thing-lust but I'm mostly over it these days; eventually I realized that the inside of my own head, and things I make, are far more interesting than anything I can buy. And I think the final nail in the coffin came when a Goetic demon I was bartering with requested a shout-out in a work of fiction I was writing. Not a toy, not a pretty doohickey, just a reference and all the energy it generated.

Unfortunately that doesn't exactly work, especially when we are talking about initially opening up a current

And ironically that's precisely the point at which it'll happen, I think, especially when the person isn't experienced with currents in general. (Come to think of it, this might be at least some of why pagan and magickal practices have the attrition rate they do.)

You cannot lead off with material gifts. Think how you would feel if someone just randomly approached you and gave you something, even if they had done research to find out what you liked. You'd probably wonder what their motive was, wouldn't you? It would seem a little creepy. You would not be all that inclined to just say hey, sure, we're buds now. After you've spent some time and exchanged some thought and energy, then you can start buying gifts if you like, and it will seem much more sincere.

Yes, yes, yes. And expansion on this point: a spirit might ask for something, but it asks for it. You don't provide it out of the blue, especially if this is the first time you've contacted/worked with/whatever an entity. You will almost assuredly get it wrong. If it wants something, you'll know. (And correspondingly, if I'm on the prowl for a tool or a spirit-gift in a store, I never buy it if I get a nudge that it's "close but not quite". Close is only good in horseshoes. The right thing comes and makes itself known.)

It's a funny cycle -- you should start out without too much stuff. Then you can start accumulating stuff as useful tools. Then eventually you start dropping a lot of the stuff again, maybe even all of it, because hey, you and your spirit buddy (/god/tradition/whatever) have spent all this time together now, you no longer need the accoutrements, the venue; you have each other.

Totally. Incidentally, I've known people who swear up and down that the cycle repeats itself--after you've trimmed away the fat, you go through a stuff phase again, more carefully and slowly this time. Personally I haven't experienced this. The no-stuff side of my stuff cycle has been very slow.

[starlightforest.livejournal.com]

I think, particularly too, that it's a newbie thing, especially within paganism and magick (in all their flavors).

If so, I'm a perpetual newbie. I was perhaps insulated from this by lack of income in my earliest forays ~12-18 years ago (=junior high and high school), but as I said, I have been falling prey again and again as recently as last year, and I think only just now have i Got just exactly what was the problem in a way that will allow me to go "a-ha! I shouldn't do this, oh no!" at the outset rather than afterwards. ^_-

I still love toys but I am now conscious of my urges (I hope). I know it will not "help" spiritually, most likely. If I still want it because it's shiny, well, that's a different value set, and gives different expectations.

Incidentally, I've known people who swear up and down that the cycle repeats itself--after you've trimmed away the fat, you go through a stuff phase again, more carefully and slowly this time.

Now that you put it this way, I think I can vouch for it. I had a serious stuff phase round about my early 20s. Then I started working RJ Stewart (something I am not up on at the moment) and stuff seriously fell away. TBH a lot of my energy is now focused on Harry Potter fandom and not spiritual things, although I do have a contact which is related to that arena. But now and then I do still pick up a special object. There is "stuff", but it is fewer, smaller, more concentrated. I wonder if this is related to the Cord material RJ has recently published a book about, where the gist is that almost every tool can eventually be reduced to the Cord. I say "reduced" but it's more like... distilled. You can make it serve for more and more things the longer you use it...?

[elven-ranger.livejournal.com]

It's a funny cycle -- you should start out without too much stuff. Then you can start accumulating stuff as useful tools. Then eventually you start dropping a lot of the stuff again, maybe even all of it, because hey, you and your spirit buddy (/god/tradition/whatever) have spent all this time together now, you no longer need the accoutrements, the venue; you have each other.

this is very very true.

[yuri93.livejournal.com]

I have been falling prey again and again as recently as last year, and I think only just now have i Got just exactly what was the problem in a way that will allow me to go "a-ha! I shouldn't do this, oh no!" at the outset rather than afterwards.

Eek. Yeah, I know what you mean. I think, thanks to having had a limited income for a very long time, that I tend to be very cautious about, well, everything I buy. Frugal and whatnot. I think my mother's packrat tendencies alienate me, too, so I'm determined to Not Be Her.

Looking over at my altar, I think maybe my "stuff" phase just took a less commercialized form. Two things on there are from the thrift store, one's from a friend's yard sale. One is a large halfshell I nicked from a Chinese buffet (after I took the meat out, natch) and one--that I'm pretty proud of--is a little snail shell I found out in the garden. Why do I have it? Not sure, but I think it's because I find its spiral fascinating. So it's not that I don't love and acquire stuff--it's that the stuff I love has a broader source than just "what the AzureGreen catalogue wants me to buy".

There is "stuff", but it is fewer, smaller, more concentrated. I wonder if this is related to the Cord material RJ has recently published a book about, where the gist is that almost every tool can eventually be reduced to the Cord. I say "reduced" but it's more like... distilled. You can make it serve for more and more things the longer you use it...?

That's an interesting thought, and I'll have to think on it myself. Is RJ talking about a literal cord there?

[starlightforest.livejournal.com]

I have a tendency to collect sticks of various lengths that way. I've tried to narrow the collection down, but it keeps rebuilding itself. I don't even use most of them for anything. They just accumulate.

Cord: yes, a literal cord, although it has a spiritual/astral (in the sense of "stellar template") duplicate. I forget whether the end goal is to finally get rid of the physical cord or not. I've only read The Spirit Cord once and I haven't actually worked any of the material in it.