(no subject)

[arethinn]

A rarity for me - a

The Mercury News occasionally runs opinion pieces by Patrick Buchanan in the editorial section. Most of the time I either don't bother reading them at all, or just sort of roll my eyes, but this morning there was this (paraphrased, since I don't feel like giving tons of personal information to the Mercury website just to read an article) gem: "By nominating Harriet Miers, President Bush is throwing away his best opportunity to reverse the social revolution the Supreme Court has forced upon us." (Neverminding that this woman's history includes, for example, supporting anti-abortion and anti-gay-rights activities. I guess that's not conservative enough for ol' Paddy J.)

A quote from one of the Hitchhiker's books comes to mind: "Arthur stuttered in fury and said nothing apposite, or indeed coherent." Besides that the only thought that comes readily to mind is "what the fuck is wrong with this guy?!" How do people get thoughts like this in their heads? "Revers[ing] the social revolution" is a good thing??? I just really don't grok the desire to restrict other people's lifestyles.

Comments

[twopiearr.livejournal.com]

the central tenant of fundamentalism is that you have The Answer and that anyone who doesn't follow The Answer is doomed to hell and damnation for all eternity. people like Buchanan don't see themselves as limiting others' lifestyles so much as saving people from the worst fate imaginable using any means necessary.

that i grok. i don't agree with his methods, but i grok his impulse - it's basicly the same impulse that informs most of my socialist leanings.

[unseelie.livejournal.com]

I recall RAW commenting that - when PAt/n/crew see things like the Gay PRide parade: the reason the FREWAK OUT is this.

"how would YOu react to the 'Rapists, peadophiles, and cannabals' parade?"
PAt/etc see all the progressive change since the `50s - as a Bad Thing(tm)

Pat sees - 'Giving clean needles to junkies to prevent AIDS spreading' or "legal abortions" as - ways that The Devil(tm) is making it easier for people to Sin(tm) and thus go to Hell.
He (and some of his ilk) honestly want to HELP!
they want to HELP save us from our odviously self destructive behavior!
Now, I don't mind others having some self destructive behavior - I will often point out that - say 'gargling with drano' is a piss poor plan - but if you are dead set to do it - I will simply get out of the way.
MOstly because
1) i'm not that empathic
2) if i was empathic: it'd want to end your pain/make you happy too
3) I know that - if someone is dead set on doing something - you can't stop them.

you can provide them with other options, make sure they are fully informed as to the bad side effects of their actions, and thats about it.

you wanna have unpotected sex in an alley with a speed freak you met at The Eagle bar:
go you!
don't whine to ME about the sores/etc.

Pat & crew honestly CARE !
and honestly think that - the progressive social movement - not only will lead to pedophilia being legalized, but that it will make 'being raped by catholic preists a requirement for graduation from high school.
AND honestly think that - the people who are in favor of things like 'racial equality' 'right to choose' 'right to die' etc - are either misguided, mis informed, or just the active servants of Evil(tm)

now, speaking as an active servant of Evil(tm) (Servants of Cthulhu, local 186, Department of Blasphemous Horror) I think Pat is miguided.

[starlightforest.livejournal.com]

"now, speaking as an active servant of Evil(tm) (Servants of Cthulhu, local 186, Department of Blasphemous Horror) I think Pat is miguided."

LOL. nice.

[unseelie.livejournal.com]

*bows*

I actually HAVE an ID card that reads
"Servants of Cthulhu, Department of Blasphemous Horror"
somewhere in my room... ;-D

[digitalsidhe.livejournal.com]

"how would YOu react to the 'Rapists, peadophiles, and cannabals' parade?"

How is a parade for people who perform non-consensual, harmful acts upon other human beings at all relevant to things like interracial marriage, women's equality, or premarital sex between consenting adults? (Those being just a few parts of the "social revolution" that Mr. Buchanan is so disturbed by.)

I know you know the difference, but the fact that Buchanan and his ilk (apparently, given what you're saying) can't tell the difference between a consensual act of love and a non-consensual act of violence doesn't mean the rest of us should buy into their arguments.

Frankly, the fact that Buchanan has convinced himself of some bizarre, superstitious and crack-headed things doesn't mean I need to pander to his emotions on the subject. His emotions may be totally honest and totally genuine, but so were the emotions of the Renaissance witch-burners who simply wanted to save their societies from the Minions of Teh D3vil™. They also may have "honestly CARED", but they also accepted spectral evidence and set up tests that nobody could pass.

Buchanan may "honestly CARE", but he's trying to steer this country down a path that is, frankly, completely un-American (and blatantly theocratic). And promulgating the equation of liberalism with "rapists, pedophiles and cannibals" is one of the tools he's trying to use to do it.

So I wanted to post enough to shoot down that equation.

[unseelie.livejournal.com]

well, i was just answering her question
"how can someone think this"

"they're fucked" while it is my honest opinion, is not very informative ;-D

[starlightforest.livejournal.com]

"they're fucked"

either

Problably not often enough, though

or

Only for the propagation of the species.

[digitalsidhe.livejournal.com]

"they're fucked" while it is my honest opinion, is not very informative

Fair enough.

[unseelie.livejournal.com]

*blows kiss*

*is immediately dammed to hell by an intollerant god who has no sense of humor , whose heaven I would not really want to be in anyway*

[nsingman.livejournal.com]

You might be surprised at just how much you do grok that desire - and not just you, by the way. Let's put it starkly:

Do you believe that if someone is willing to work for $1/hour, and someone else is willing to hire that person, the employer should be forced to pay more than $1/hour regardless?

Do you believe that if someone has a private business enterprise, and doesn't want to hire members of a certain ethnic group or allow them to patronize the establishment, they should be forced to do so anyway?

Do you believe that if someone, in full possession of their faculties, wishes to commit suicide, or take addictive drugs, they should be prevented from doing so?

Do you believe that if a woman who is in the fourth month of a healthy pregnancy wants an abortion despite the pregnancy posing no risk to her health, she should be forced to continue the pregnancy?

Anyone who answers any of the above questions in the affirmative ought to be able to grok Pitchfork Pat.

[starlightforest.livejournal.com]

So where am I at half yes and half no? *wry grin*

I understand wanting to make people do things because you believe it is for their own good. I just don't understand how a thinking person can arrive at the conclusion that the particular things he advocates are for anyone's good. It's just totally alien thinking to me.

[twopiearr.livejournal.com]

the weakness most thinking people succumb to is having faith in something greater than themselves. it ain't always something divine, but it's something that leads them to the conclusion that (again to quote the Book of Adams): "This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything."

i don't think Buchanan is a stupid, uneducated, unintelligent man. i just think he has an absolute and unwaivering faith in something that i am seriously skeptical of on a good day. that makes it pretty impossible for me to agree with most of his ideas about what we need to do, but not so hard to understand why he believes he's doing the righ thing.

[nsingman.livejournal.com]

At half yes and half no, you're half correct in this libertarian's book. :-)

A thinking person arrives at that conclusion the same way anyone else does - by making value judgements. Different values, different things advocated.

[digitalsidhe.livejournal.com]

You make some good points, especially where the private employer is concerned, but I can also see some quibbles to be made about a couple of the others:

Can someone who's willing to work for $1/hour really be said not to be under some form of economic coercion?

Is the average person who wants to commit suicide really in full possession of their faculties? Most people who attempt suicide and are restrained later say they're glad someone stopped them, and that they weren't in their right mind. (Obviously, I'm not talking about people who are terminally ill, in pain, or otherwise members of the usual right-to-die cohort.)

Still, the one about the racist employer bothers me... and might give me a point of entry into Mr. Buchanan's world-view.

[nsingman.livejournal.com]

I think that reasonable people may be bothered by any of those situations.

I consider economic coercion an oxymoron (I define coercion rather narrowly), but taking advantage of someone's desperation is certainly unkind. As for the suicide, it's too easy to say that if an otherwise healthy person wants to commit suicide, they must ipso facto be nuts. My icon might give a hint about how I feel about racial bigotry, and my wife and I are pro-choice parents of three.

That said, there's an enormous gulf between those who are not willing to force others even to do what we truly believe to be the right course of action, and good-hearted, well-intentioned folks who believe that they must sometimes coerce others, however reluctantly they do it, for the sake of a greater good. Not every tyranny is mean-spirited.