ranty bit

[arethinn]

(get me, I'm blackthornglade! *wink*)

from a post in wiccan:

"Does anyone know of a solitary initiation that I could do, that doesn't involve wine or going out-of-doors? Or going out-of-doors, at any rate..."

...

WTF?

Nature religion. "I don't want to go out-of-doors." I repeat -- whatthefuck, over?

I could have a little sympathy if she's in Australia or something and thus is having climate issues with the time of year, but come on.

(I'm not saying that one can't do ritual indoors - just that the somewhat whiny, "I want my religion to be convenient" attitude that seems to be behind such a thought is annoying to me. Sorry, pal. The Old Gods are many things, but convenient isn't among them.)

Comments

Convenient Spirituality

[kitarifox.livejournal.com]

A very good point, and living in australia is no excuse either. For about 9 months of the year its fine weather here, and a dedicated pagan will celebrate in rain and blazing sun.

I'm not a fan of the whole 'self-initiation' scene anyway, it seems to make people think they can light a few candles and tell the world they're now a witch/pagan/whatever and thats it. Instant spirituality, just add incense.

Pax
Kitari

[blackthornglade.livejournal.com]

You get a gold star! :)



I was going to rant about that one, but decided to stick to the dark/gothic thing :)

[starlightforest.livejournal.com]

Other folks have brought up (and I myself thought of) some perfectly valid reasons why this person might need to avoid either wine or going outside, so I feel a bit bad for picking on this particular example. However, I do think the point about convenience stands in a general sense.

[blackthornglade.livejournal.com]

Sure, there are valid reasons. When I was running a coven, we generally had two cups tht went round, one alcoholic and one not. We would also avoid certain foods for those (like me) with severe allergies.

The thing is, and even the person that initiated me is highly guilty of this, modern neo-pagans are very divorced from the natural world and (barring health reasons) need to get out and connect to it. We're very sedentary (and I'm just as guilty of this as the next, but I'm working on it.) and it shows.

I've been told that I place getting people out and walking in nature (not working with it, just observing it) too early in the program because it's one of the earliest exercises I have them do for a full year. There's just something wrong with that idea.

[kudzu.livejournal.com]

Many Wiccans (including Gardnerian Wiccans) do not consider Wicca a nature religion. Nature is a common metaphor for theological mysteries. My Coven almost never does rituals out-of-doors. In fact, one woman was turned away as an Initiate because she needed a nature religion.

[starlightforest.livejournal.com]

Okay, point taken. Come to think of it, the Kingstone coven I practiced with never did outdoor ritual either, but I think that was more for the privacy reason (we did outdoor public rituals).

That said, I think this is much more likely to be a feature of traditionalist, lineaged Wicca than it is whatever exactly this person asking about self-initiation is likely to be practicing.

[kudzu.livejournal.com]

I get your point about the laziness of some new "Wiccans" these days. I'm always amazed when people ask, "do we have to celebrate ALL the Sabbats?" There are so many things wrong with that question.

[dreamfall.livejournal.com]

Another possibility, maybe allergies? I love to be outside... but not in the early spring (tree/grass pollen) or early fall (ragweed/goldenrod). I have been known to react so severely to airborne pollen those times of year I literally break out into hives. She might not be convenient, but I don't think she wants me violently ill and clawing the skin off my own arms. lol.

One of the reasons I've not really gone to any of the camping-gathers, is because I'm so violently allergic to so many things out of doors between March and October. :/

[starlightforest.livejournal.com]

*nods* Another possibility. Not being allergic to anything myself, I never consider. (That must suck for you!)

[theawfulcurse.livejournal.com]

here! here! gosh, I mean I understand if it includes the consideration you mentioned on the Wiccan community, but chances are these people are lazy buggers who just want to feel light and love and faeries fleeting about their princessy bedroom :P so much for nature! eeek!

[theawfulcurse.livejournal.com]

LOL, I'm in Australia and winter certainly doesn't stop me!

[ahril.livejournal.com]

Damn right! *I* wouldn't intitiate her.

[wildelf.livejournal.com]

"Solitary initiation"

*pfeh*

You can self dedicate. You can NOT self initiate.
People need to use a flippin' dictionary.

[starlightforest.livejournal.com]

That is a whole other ball of wax worms, my friend...