(no subject)

[arethinn]

My current status message in Instantbird is Go not to the confused non-elves for answers, for they shall say both "Buh?" and "Fucked if I know?" Today when I logged in and saw this I got curious about the "etymology", as it were, of the phrase "fuck(ed) if I know". Clearly it's one of the many English idioms that invoke the idea of being penetrated sexually, whether willingly (with the implications that the target is at least effeminate and possibly a "sodomite") or no. But why wish such idiomatic fucking upon oneself? Is it kind of an oath, saying "If I am lying to you when I say that I don't know, then I am just a filthy poof / may I be sexually penetrated against my will"?

(Not sure then exactly what the expansion would be of milder "hell/heck if I know", except that it's simply a substitution of milder swear words for the strong "fuck", and loses the actual sense of the verb in the process.)

Comments

[bubbleblower]

I've always heard it as "Damned/Darned if I know." I'm not sure of the actual literal meaning if indeed there is any. I suspect "fucked" is just simple word substitution with little thought to nuances of meaning.

[arethinn]

"Damned" could be the same invocation of some kind of retribution if the speaker lies, I suppose.

[caraven]

My old days of reading Language Log come to mind here.

Especially with the similar phrase "Damned if I know," I suspect there's a clipped "May I be damned if I know and don't admit to it." So I suspect it's "May I be fucked if I do know and not tell you." So, yes, I think pretty much what you're sensing there.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

The original idiom is "(I'll be) damned if I know" (https://www.google.com/search?q=damned+if+I+know). "Hell/heck if I know" is a later (and ungrammatical) variant. "Fucked/fuck if I know" is still later.

Yes, it is a kind of oath; a classic example of 'taking the Lord's name in vain', and thus was shocking back in the day when the general populace believed in damnation. Since the whole point of swearing is shock-value, "I'll be damned/[go to]hell" has been replaced by the good old F-word, which still has some.

"Fucked" is not to be taken literally in this context. It is itself used idiomatically, as in such phrases as "If I don't turn that report in on time, I'll be fucked." This does not imply any sexual context at all; here fucked merely means "in a bad situation I can't easily fix".

Compare and contrast "If I don't turn in that report on time, I'll be raped." Not the same phrase at all, is it?

Idioms are just weird, that's all. Don't let them bug you. ;~D

[arethinn]

Right, but I was thinking of how we got to be using "fuck/fucked" in these contexts to begin with, i.e. how does "being fucked" imply that something is a bad situation in the first place?